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12/02/2001 Archived Entry: "Argue with the chickens?"

Chickens started a thread called Christianity is BS. Click more to see the cut and paste of my posted inline response to his. I'd appreciate comments on this one........

24fightingchickens wrote:

: >
: > I love to argue religion!
: >

I never argue religion. What's to argue? It is a highly personal
experience meeting each person where they are, and therefore unique to
each.

: > That's not the effect that statement about your beliefs has on me. The
: > effect that it does have is to lessen my opinion of your intelligence,
: > since Christianity is paradoxical and *cannot* be true.

I wonder about the intelligence of someone who denies experiences of
their own or others simply because it seems it "cannot be true." A
person can not explain a personal experience to another without
subjecting it to interpretation and misunderstanding. Each person
interprets/understands from his own vantage point through prior
experience and current needs. This does not negate the reality of the
experience.

That would be like a blind man saying the sky nor the top of a tree
nor lightning nor a flying eagle exist because he cannot see them, or
a deaf person saying no fire alarm sounded, no music is playing, and
nobody called his name because he didn't hear it.

: > It also makes
: > me think you have a set of beliefs in which you think that there are
: > people on Earth qualified to state what criteria an infinite being
: > uses in determining who gets to live forever. There's a lot of
: > thinking to be done there that will lead anyone to terminal doubt in
: > that belief system.
: >

Although I have been inundated with and subjected to the ideas and
doctrine of many "religions" and religious "systems", I do not accept
without question what I am told, nor do I expect anybody else to do
so. Any of my "beliefs" are simply a response to the personal
experiences in my life. My understandings and expectations are, of
course, influenced by others' words, but my daily growth is evident of
the highly personal nature of the creator/sustainer's walk with me.

: > I have no problem with people believing in God. I do have a problem
: > with a religion which states that God is infinite, and then tries to
: > use finite language and finite beings to convey some sort of message
: > to other finite beings about its supposed wants, needs, and
: > weaknesses.
: >

I'm sure if people could understand infinity and encountered it
frequently, they would have better words to convey the message of
who/what they have encountered.

: > I find the Christian model of God unacceptable. The God of
: > Chrisitanity is selfish, vain, egotistical, and frankly not even that
: > great by human standards. Wiping people out for behavior that is
: > inherent in the design of the creator doing the wiping out is
: > absolutely moronic.
: >

If I work on a project long enough and it never suits me, I throw it
out and start another. There comes a point when further work becomes
pointless, so to speak.

: > I was raised a Christian, but I graduated the day I realized that the
: > man behind the pulpit was not even as smart as myself. How could he
: > possibly understand anything about the divine when he couldn't even
: > understand my objections to his proposal for how the universe
: > operates? He says that I have to accept Jesus because a book written
: > by bronze age people says so or I will not live forever. That's
: > ludicrous when you step back and think about it.
: >

Intelligence is not a prerequisite to divine revelation. Often it is
a hindrance. (related to the following) Lack of intelligence is not
a prerequisite to divine revelation, but it sure can be a hindrance in
the communication of that revelation!

: > I prefer to think that God is something we cannot understand - and do
: > not need to understand - in order to go on with our lives. If there is
: > a God, and I think there is, as an infinite being, it should probably
: > not be humanized and given human emotions, desires, and impulses.
: >

See there? Jesus complaint exactly!

John 3:10 "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not
understand these things? 11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what
we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do
not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things
and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of
heavenly things?

---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV
Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights
Reserved

: > I guess for me, the real problem is that in order to have faith in
: > someone's story about what God is about, you have to believe that the
: > person telling you the story is credible to relate a message from an
: > infinite being. I do not believe any human ever was so equipped. There
: > is no credible witness.

Very true. All you have to go on is the evidence of growth in that
person to verify his experience, and your own personal
experience/revelation, when you are open to it and ready.

--

PK

There are two kinds of people in the world:
those who wake up in the morning and say, "Good morning, Lord,"
and those who wake up in the morning and say, "Good Lord, it's morning."